Lily Childs is a horror writer with a distinctive voice. Her stories are visceral explorations of the grotesque, her characters real and distorted, and she can set an atmosphere that will create a chill. Her horror collection, Cabaret Of Dread had me turning the pages, as I read one gem of a story after another. I highly recommend it and you can buy it here. She’s also writing a novel.

Lily met me at The Slaughterhouse, where we talked about femme fatales and horror fiction.

How do the tactics of a femme fatale differ from the approach of the dark man who inhabits the dreams written about in horror fiction?

Oh, the Femme Fatale is quite different. She’s the consummate planner; has already explored every outcome before she bites or wheedles her wily way into someone’s life. She’s all about seduction and power whereas the Dark Man’s a chancer.

Both have an overwhelming confidence though. If I were writing crime then their arrogance would be their downfall; in horror – anything goes.

I probably stereotype the Femme Fatale; a gorgeous, dangerous woman with a violent chip on her shoulder. I hate this excuse for my sex but I kind of admire her too. Maybe I’d like to look like her (those fabulous clothes) but I certainly wouldn’t want to be her.

The Dark Man has disturbed our dreams forever. He whispers wicked promises; seduces then abuses you – laughing all the while. He’s a shape-shifter; we’re always running away from him – yet chasing him too. Sometimes he’s a clown, or a Jack Sparrow. Sometimes he’s the insurance collector with an innocuous name like Mr Virtue who visits your house every week and grabs you when your mum’s not looking.

Occasionally the Dark Man is a Dark Woman. And that’s scary.

Do you think the unveiling that exists in horror fiction is related to the sense that people are unknowable and why does that exert fear?

Yes and no. Individuals surprise us all the time. Sometimes it’s as simple as the quiet accountant winning a marathon, or the loudmouth school bully sobbing at Strictly Come Dancing. When it comes to horror we can manipulate reality to deliver a disturbing fiction, but can we emulate the truly bizarre? The genuine tales of cannibalism that dip in and out of all nations’ histories, inbreeds trapped in wardrobes, syphilitic libertines spreading dripping pox…

A worrying number of people are immune to real life, to struggling – to disease, mental illness and poverty. They’re the ones that should be afraid. Unfortunately they’re more likely to burn your books than ever be affected by words of horror.

To turn it around, I’m quite happy for this lot to be at the mercy of my dark compatriots; strung up by demons or ravaged by soulless creatures for fun. It takes the humanity out it; perhaps that makes me a coward.

For the true horror fan, you have to work really hard to garner that fear. Unveiling something unknowable to that audience means showing them respect. As a fan myself, I want to be shocked and disturbed but I also want to be excited by the darkness of the story’s main character; for me it is the characters rather than their actions that scare the crap out of me. And I like that.

What is your relationship to mythology?

Can I laugh or cry here? The ‘old tales’ were those that held my fascination as a child. Even the myths in the Bible (no offense) intrigued me until that old expulsion thing reared its fine and ugly head. “Out girl – there is only One True God.” “Then who were the many Gods all those other people worshipped, Miss?” “Your questions are inappropriate; leave – and don’t bother coming back.” Such understanding and compassion shown to an inquisitive 8-year-old… but hey.

I have a special relationship with the Greek island of Crete, home to the Minotaur, the Bee Goddess and the Snake Goddess. I visit annually – on the excuse of eating grilled octopus in the olive groves, drinking crisp wines and swimming in the bluest waters, but always I take the time to wander in the hills, to lie down upon the stark earth and talk to the Ancient ones. I won’t disclose my conversations, but I would ask that you believe me when I tell you they do reply.

The extremes of mythology and legend – of deities consuming and vomiting up new offspring have so many parallels in nature, if only we’d care to look deeply enough. When such tales drift into my own writing, however horrific the story or reference – it’s delivered with respect.

This glorious island of Albion too resonates with a unique mythology of its own. Some of it revealed and Disneyfied, other histories untold – bound to rocks and stones, to wells and sacred springs. I’m forever happy in those places; I remember.

Who are your literary influences?

These are authors whose writing deeply, deeply affects my psyche; who terrify me, make me weep with the beauty or starkness of the scenes they set, and who force me to question everything.

Clive Barker is always in my head. Imajica, Weaveworld, The Great and Secret Show – they are just astounding works of art. My bibles. Barker’s work is pure craftsmanship yet despite its fantasy element, is so uncontrived. I feel I have been to all the wondrous places he describes, have met Gentle and Pie ‘oh’ Pah and Dowd, Celestine, Hoy-polloi, Peccable, Godolphin, Uriel, Little Ease and all those incredible characters. There is something of the divine and the earthly, of the deity and the demon in all of them. Isn’t that how we really are?

I was also a huge fan of Barker’s Books of Blood as a teenager and re-read them all recently – with relish.

Joanne Harris – her writing is so dangerous and magical it makes me shiver in fear and delight. I particularly love Holy Fools; it’s as though the pages are dripping in gilt and sparkling with sigils and disallowed pagan truths. Sleep Pale Sister is sensual and gothic, and Gentlemen & Players is wicked in the purest sense of the word. Harris tackles evil with such evident pleasure you are sucked right in – and tricked – over and over again.

Add in Sarah Waters, Gunter Grass, Camus, Zafón, Woolf, Plath – all writers that send you spinning with fear, with passion; who take you to the very edge – and sometimes let you go.

For many years I was a collector of Andrew Lang’s original “Coloured Fairy Books”, traditional tales and myths gathered and translated from across the world from the 1890s to 1910, all with extraordinary illustrations. The stories are written as they were meant to be told; horror lies deep within their beautiful pages, and stays with you.

I can’t say I am influenced to write in the style of anyone else; when I scribble I bare some dark part of myself that I don’t always recognise and hope that’s a voice readers enjoy. But if my writing brings even an ounce of the same emotions that I get from the authors I have mentioned, then I’m happy.

Tell us about your novel.

I haven’t told anyone about it yet! It’s half-written at the moment but is fully outlined and the writing is progressing well. It’s perhaps less horror than a passionate, supernatural mystery (with nasty bits). I won’t give too much away but…

Dispirited by Lily Childs
Alexandra Ford is not nice to know. Cold, heartless; she lives off the gullible and the vulnerable. It’s so easy. But Alex has a secret. Desperate to find out who she really is, the cynical young woman has been delving into her own past. Attracting the attentions of local archivist Daniel Carey the pair gradually uncover a disturbing and unexpected ancestry.

Inspired by her discoveries, habitual con-artist Alex uses her research to concoct a brand new scam – her best ever – but her ancestors have had enough. Seeking Alex out they awaken her perceptions, opening terrifying doors to abduction, possession… and execution.

With her carefully-constructed barricades falling apart, the police at her door and the voice of a missing girl trailing her in the dark can Alex change her ways to help the victims that are counting on her? Will Daniel hang around long enough to see through the beguiling Alex’s tough exterior? And is Alexandra Ford finally ready to face her own shocking truth?

What made you start writing horror fiction?

Dark thoughts. Being… not bullied at school but criticised, ignored and constantly made to feel useless. Seeing things other people couldn’t and getting laughed at. It all led to feeling insular, where I developed a healthy interest in the occult and a fascination with all spectrums of emotions. I wrote lots of gothic-style poetry as a teenager which was extraordinarily self- indulgent, poor quality slush but that was probably where it all started. Oh, and listening to Kate Bush.

Later on I worked in Social Security for 8 years and saw things I wouldn’t wish on anyone. It stays with you.

These days I find writing horror marvellously therapeutic; though I do sometimes wonder if I enjoy it too much!

Do you think horror lives in real crime?

There’s no doubt. Rape, assault, murder. Abuse, stalking, abduction. Even burglary is the rape of someone’s property, of their confidence. As a writer I feel a morbid responsibility to see inside each of the victim’s, criminal’s and observer’s heads when a crime is committed. They are all terrifying places with different interpretations depending on the viewpoint. I don’t see how you can write objectively without understanding (whether you like it or not) all sides.

Who is the Long Man?

Apart from the title of my first unfinished novel? ‘The Long Man’ refers to The Long Man of Wilmington, a 226ft high, ancient chalk-figure carved into the South Downs near to where I live in East Sussex. His origins are unknown and there has been much speculation as to his identity; a surveyor – holding primitive measuring rods, Baldur the Beautiful, Tiw, Hades, an unknown deity, Jesus… we are unlikely to ever know.

Since Victorian times he has had a slightly modernist, smooth appearance and the brick that makes up his outline is regularly repainted. But originally he was a form seen only in certain lights and times of the year, an almost bear-like figure carrying a scythe and pole, horns at his head, both feet pointing to his right. It could be argued that he was a figment of historical imagination except for the many tumuli in Windover Hill above his head that give credence to this being a place of Bronze Age settlement. The sharp slope on which The Long Man lies would have been seen above the forests that covered Sussex lowlands in older times – perhaps he welcomed travellers, perhaps he called to shamans.

I’ve known The Long Man all my life, and have spent a lot of time on the hills above, beside and below him. The whole area is very powerful, very spiritual. Wilmington village itself has pagan Yew trees held up by Victorian street lamps; trees a thousand years older than its church. Rooks and crows nest here in droves, shouting constantly at passers-by. There is a derelict priory that adds to the mystery of the place, and neo-druids meet at the quarter festivals of the year on a flat circular plateau below the Long Man’s gaze to bless the land, to kiss and dance in The Earth’s honour.

I once met a fox cub in the wheat field at The Long Man’s feet. We stared each other out for ages until he approached and gave my hand a lick and a nip. Windover Hill, Wilmington and The Long Man are places of deep mystery, where paths cross and the veil is thin – how could I not write about that?

What advice would you give to yourself as a younger woman?

That’s easy. This sounds a bit like cognitive therapy laced with affirmations but it’s what I needed to hear as a teenage girl/young woman. Whether I would have listened is a different matter:

It’s OK to be different. Embrace that, don’t hide behind it.

Those girls that only want your company when it suits them? Drop them now – all you have in common is your gender. There is a world of fascinating, gentle and caring people out there that you will meet along the way. Some will drift away, but some will stay with you for ever. Take the first step to meeting them right now.

Don’t be afraid to believe in yourself and your own experiences – learn from your own journey not those imposed/dictated by others.

Whoever hurts you, puts you down or questions your abilities – rise above it. Take control. If you believe their words, they will have won. You are better than that, and you are better than them.

Perhaps most importantly, don’t struggle alone. If you need help – ask.

That was all a bit personal, I guess. If you mean writing advice I’d say:

Read, read and read some more. Take a road trip with Kerouac but snuggle up with some Dickens too. Don’t limit yourself to genre and literary style – read anything that appeals to you, and try those that don’t appeal. Review what you read; examine how the story makes you feel and the emotions it touches. Is it a sensorial experience? Does it make you afraid to stop reading?

Write as it flows; you can edit afterwards so don’t beat yourself up about typos and punctuation in the first draft. You’ll learn pedantry later (it might be reclassified as OCD by then).

And please – never throw your writing away.

Do you think an author needs to have a wicked heart in order to write about the evils of the world?

I guess we’ve already touched on this in different ways but I’d say no, I believe good writers are more likely to have open hearts, souls that see all sides of a situation. They have to truly understand pain to be convincing purveyors of truth – it doesn’t mean they’re running around the streets committing crimes themselves (cue a story prompt, methinks). In fact, in my experience crime and horror writers are a pretty pleasant lot – all with a great, and probably essential sense of humour. And a drinking habit – but hey.

Having said all that, I don’t ‘arf grin when I’m writing from inside a demon’s head, and have been known to laugh out loud when slicing flesh – I mean writing about slicing flesh. But that’s all just for personal pleasure… isn’t it?

Thank you Lily for an intensive and great interview.

Thank you Richard for inviting me to the Chin Wag. I’m sorry for taking my time – your patience is, frankly – incredible. I really enjoyed our chat and your challenging questions, and appreciate you treating me gently – as requested.

Lily is a writer of horror, twisted crime, dark fiction and poetry who sees beauty in everything. She is the author of the Magenta Shaman urban fantasy short novella series and has recently released the first volume of her extreme horror short stories Cabaret of Dread through Ganglion Press. Her ebooks are available to download from all Amazon platforms.

Lily is Horror Editor at award-winning ezine Thrillers Killers ‘n’ Chillers, alongside Crime Editor/writer Col Bury, and Thriller Editor/best-selling author of the Joe Hunter series, Matt Hilton. She blogs regularly at http://lilychildsfeardom.blogspot.com and you can follow her on Twitter @LilyChilds and facebook.com/lilychildsfeardom

Amazon links:
Cabaret of Dread – Amazon UK and US
Magenta Shaman – Amazon UK and US
Magenta Shaman Stones The Crow – Amazon UK and US

Visit Lily’s website for links to her short stories and the anthologies she’s been published in.

Eric Kaldor has written episodes of The Rockford Files, Kojak and The Incredible Hulk, and he was blacklisted by Hollywood. He sold drugs to Hollywood stars. He’s also had a career as an actor. His story is something all writers should read, and is testament to his durability. He’s written a novel, Scars Of David. You can read or listen to the opening chapters at his website.

Eric met me at The Slaughterhouse where we talked about growing up in the Great Depression and Hollywood.

How do you think growing up in the Great Depression has influenced you as a writer?

Growing up during The Great Depression made me aware that something was wrong with the world. I was scared because my parents were so fearful about the future. To offset this fear I became an avid reader. I read Hemingway when I was quite young. The prose was simple and an eleven year old could understand it. I remember being terribly moved by Hemingway’s ” First Forty Nine Stories.” The stories were about bravery and the natural beauty of the world. Those stories took some of the fear away. I was amazed that the written word could do that. I wanted to do that too. I wanted to be brave in a hostile world. I wanted to write.

Tell us about your time writing The Rockford Files.

I learned a lot about writing for television when I wrote episodes for The Rockford Files. Rockford was one of my first assignments and it was prestigious because the show was so popular. Steve Cannell was the story editor. He was young but dynamic and went on to become one of the most important writer-producers in TV.

I got lucky with my first scripts. Cannell liked them and they shot the first draft. This was kind of unheard of. Scripts always went through a certain protocol: to wit: you pitched your story verbally, if the show runner liked it he told you to go to script but with changes that he wanted included. After writing the script there were more changes and there was a polish. But as I said they shot my first draft. My agent, ICM, at the time thought I was a genius. And I wrote another script for Rockford and again they shot the first draft. But all that was my undoing. I was very full of myself and I was beginning to believe my own publicity. I WAS A GENIUS! And in the story meeting for my next script I didn’t listen to Cannell intently—if at all. I just went off and wrote what I felt like. It was nothing like the story Cannell and I had agreed on. Cannell was furious and would never take another story  meeting with me. That, to say the least, was dispiriting. But I learned my lesson. I taped all future story meetings and never again got cut off.

The moral of all this—is there are no geniuses in episodic TV. If you’re gonna write for tv, listen intently to the story editor and come equipped with a tape recorder.

Tell us about Scars Of David.

Scars of David is about living a life in the fast lane. It’s about a life I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. (And I still have a few.)

I wrote it because I wanted to write something honest. I have been on this planet for 83 turbulent years. During that span amongst other things I have been an athlete, a spy for Army Intelligence and The FBI, at TV sports producer, a TV writer, I have been a finalist for an Emmy. And in addition to that dubious honor I have been a cocaine dealer and addict, a philanderer and loyal lover, and all around nogoodnik…and a decent guy, I also have possibly been a murderer and I was definitely a sex maniac.

I have faced death twice and because the next time I know I won’t be so lucky I wanted to get this life down on paper.

Scars of David is not a Hollywood novel, though much of the action takes place there. I have used real names in the novel. I hope your followers will check out Scars of David. I wrote it from the heart and I welcome any input you or your readers may have.

Who are your literary influences?

Writers that have really influenced me are Nathaniel West and Henry Miller. They are polar opposites. West only wrote 4 very short books but they are so carefully written. Every sentence is a gem. And one book, The Day of The Locusts is the definitive Hollywood novel. There will never be another like it. The book nailed this place I happen to live in.

Henry Miller wrote tons of stuff. His prose seems to roar out of him. I am sure he never rewrote a word. And the torrent of words are not only beautiful but they hold such truths about life, America, France and of course sex. On top of that they are fun.

I met him once. He was having coffee with a friend of mine. When I joined the table Miller was talking about—-what else beautiful women. He was 85 at the time. His lust for life is in every sentence of his books.

I reread portions of these guys frequently…and they never cease to amaze.

Is there a particular event that changed your life and influenced your writing?

I write because I’ve had a few close brushes with death. I know it’s a truism but life is very fragile and I want to at least try to understand what it is to be a conscious human being. So I write to try and understand myself.

I hope someday soon to publish my novel about my life—but even if I don’t succeed in finding a publisher I will go on writing because writing four hours a day helps me to live the other twenty.

And now, if you permit, a bit of self promotion. I have posted the first ten chapters of my autobiographical novel entitled “Scars of David” on my website – http://www.erickaldor.com/. I’d appreciate any input.

What did your Hollywood blacklisting tell you about Hollywood?

Being black listed ruined me. It’s hard to admit but to support myself and my girlfriend I started selling cocaine for 2 reasons. I liked it. And I was making money. In the eighties everybody was using it and I had quite a Hollywood clientele. I tell all about that phase of my life in my novel, Scars of David.

But back to the black list. I got stuck on that because my girl friend was the wife of the head of Production at Paramount. Out of revenge he made me a persona non grata at all studios. And let me tell you, black listing is insidious. Nobody will admit it—but nobody returns calls—even on shows where I had written well received scripts.

As far as I know black listing is still going on to some degree in Hollywood. It takes the form of you being on The A list—or God forbid—not being on it.

But in conclusion it did one good thing for me. I stopped writing episodic nonsense and wrote for myself. and I wrote the truth…maybe if I hadn’t been black listed I’d be writing lyrics for Glee…and I wouldn’t want my career to end on that sour note.

My advice to all writers. Do as you’re told. And above all don’t screw the boss’ wife.

How was it writing episodes of The Incredible Hulk and Kojak?

Writing the Hulk and Kojak were 2 totally different experiences and they needed a different approach. In Kojak you had a wise guy with a heart. A lot of the mannerisms a la lolly pop sucking etc. Telly put in himself. And we writers were never supposed to include these actions in our stage directions. In addition we had to adhere to certain NYPD rules and strictures. And on top of that we had to create a “realistic” show.

The Hulk was a comic book. There were only two emotions. One was mild mannered Bill Bixby and then the enraged Green Monster, the Hulk.

The premises were simple. Get Bixby mad so he becomes The Hulk.

I sold one show in a one liner. I pitched doing Oliver Twist with The Hulk coming to the rescue of Oliver and his stablemates.

Thank God for Dickens! He was there when I needed him.

If you were to give advice to yourself as a younger man what would you say?

If I had anything approaching 20 20 vision about myself when I was young—and I didn’t—I’d have shied away from booze, stayed married, respected my father, channeled my sex drive, avoided cocaine, continued to live in France and raise my son there.

I would have still written. I would have tried for some kind of teaching job and would never have returned to America. If I had followed those tenants my writing and my life would have been immeasurably better.

My advice to all young writers is to follow the words of Joseph Campbell who said, “Follow your bliss. That is what your life is for—that should be what your life is about.

It takes guts to do that….I am trying to do it now by writing my novel, Scars of David. It is my way of following my bliss…I don’t know if I’ll get there but in my old age I’m gonna give it one hell of a try.

What are you working on now?

I am currently writing a novel entitled, Scars of David. It is an x rated, black-comedy about my life. It’s about sports and tv and writing and Hollywood and murder and sex, The book is autobiographical and pulls no punches, I think it will be the last thing I will ever write. I am sure it is the most honest piece of writing I have ever penned. Your followers can check it out at http://www.erickaldor.com/.

How do you want to be remembered?

This last question is the toughest of all…but I’ll be absolutely honest when I answer it. First of all the things I don’t want to be remembered for—I don’t want to be remembered as a lousy husband. I don’t want to be remembered as a crazy drug fueled sex maniac. I don’t want to be remembered as an unfaithful lover and a lousy friend. I don’t want to be remembered as an episodic writer or a sports tv producer…and I could go on an and on about how I don’t want to be remembered—
But let me say how I want to be remembered. It is only about one thing. My novel, Scars of David. At the risk of hyperbole I have poured my guts out in that book. It is the only truly honest thing I have ever written.

On my deathbed—which may not be too far away—as I am 83 years old—I think one of my final phantasms will be that somebody somewhere is reading Scars of David.

It’s totally egoistic but it is the reason I am living now and it is what I want to live after me.

Thank you Eric for an engaging and great interview.